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Post by thomasallencummins on Oct 5, 2007 9:12:13 GMT -5
All I have to do is think about how I felt about Darth Vader back when I first saw Star Wars to know how my perception has changed. The Prequels were generally focused on what exactly happened to Anakin Skywalker and what drove him to become the iconic villain Darth Vader. Now that I've witnessed it all I have to confess that I would have rather not known. Darth Vader (before the prequels) was not only delightfully evil but also legendary, mythic and mysterious. To find out he was just a snot nosed whining kid that was insanely short sighted, even for a Jedi, destroyed my impression of the character. Unfortunately there is no way to recapture what I've lost. Don't get me wrong I've enjoyed the prequels for the most part but...  |
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Post by Avatar on Oct 8, 2007 0:06:33 GMT -5
Hmmm, interesting question. I can't say I've ever thought of it quite that way, but you do have a point. I also largely enjoyed the prequels...(Hey, they had Jedi in them!)...but Anakin was the worst of them. Still, 20 years in that suit probably dried up the snot and whining.  --A |
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Post by thomasallencummins on Oct 8, 2007 6:23:04 GMT -5
Still, 20 years in that suit probably dried up the snot and whining. --A Yes! I have to agree about that. The Vader from Episode IV is far less...moist...than young Anakin. ;D |
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Post by dANdeLION on Oct 8, 2007 9:44:44 GMT -5
I think landing in the lava is what really dried him out.
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Post by thomasallencummins on Oct 8, 2007 10:56:45 GMT -5
I have to admit that probably helped alot.
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Post by dANdeLION on Oct 8, 2007 15:11:55 GMT -5
Frankly, Darth Vader was ruined for me in ROTJ. The prequals did nothing to help with that, but it was already broken for me.
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Post by Avatar on Oct 8, 2007 23:27:05 GMT -5
Because he "went back to the light?"
--A
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Post by thomasallencummins on Oct 9, 2007 5:24:32 GMT -5
Yeah. That would be the "It's too late for me...son." Moment. Ugh! The big reveal only to see a lumpy, decrepit old man.
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Post by dANdeLION on Oct 9, 2007 9:32:12 GMT -5
Yeah, but there was still hope for Vader to pull off some major evil thing; maybe actually kill Leia, Chewbacca and Solo. Hell, even if things went the way they did I'd have lived with it, but Vader needed to jump off the balcony with Palpatine so I could have been spared what I consider the ultimate moment of Vader's character assassination, that being the unmasking of him and the listening to his whiney-assed non-James Earl Voice....and the stupid ending where we get to see his ghost......why, Lucas; WHY?!?!?!!!!
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Post by Avatar on Oct 10, 2007 1:23:08 GMT -5
Vader needed to jump off the balcony with Palpatine... Yeah, I agree actually. That would have been a far better end for him. --A |
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ram
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Post by ram on Nov 21, 2007 12:47:18 GMT -5
The prequels were OK in general, though they do have their share of awful moments. I thought Revenge of the Sith was the one genuinely great prequel film. Lucas really gave us something special there, IMO. But I have to agree with atomic and dynomite about ROTJ: it "ruined" Vader for me too. I remember being pretty disappointed by a lot of things in ROTJ, and Vader was one of them. I mean, in Empire Strikes Back, he was so unbelievably cool: the towering Dark Lord of the Sith whose implacable presence drove the movie; the dark Jedi who beat the crap out of Luke Skywalker like it was just another day at the office.
Then came ROTJ, and I sat there wondering what had happened to Vader. Somehow he had become a wimp! This is taking nothing away from Luke as it was great to see him become a full-fledged Jedi, and the final duel between son and father remains of the high points in all the Star Wars movies. That being said, it would've been terrific if Jedi Luke had fought Empire Vader -- two equals going toe-to-toe. Yeah, in all fairness, it was Luke's turn to beat the snot out of Dad, but still...
I was more or less fine with Anakin as portrayed in the prequels, even if he did get on my nerves a bit in Episode II. But yeah, he's a far cry from the original trilogy Vader.
Dynomite, I agree, there were opportunities for Lucas to give ROTJ a darker edge, and not just for Vader. It was an open secret that Harrison Ford had wanted Han Solo to die - make a meaningful sacrifice on behalf of the Rebellion and thus go out with a bang. Instead, he hangs around and mopes. There was to have been a battle between Wookies and Imperial forces, which I can only gather would've been more ferocious than the one we did get - between lame stormtroopers and cute teddy bears.
Lucas, and Jedi director Richard Marquand, just didn't seem to want to maintain the dark edge that Irvin Kershner gave us in Empire.
And that reminds me...I've forgotten to comment on a book that I mentioned a long time ago in a thread far far away: The Making of Return of the Jedi. I had wanted to see if the behind-the-scenes goings-on could reveal to me who was really in charge of the film - Marquand or Lucas?
Well, the short answer is they were both in charge. So they're both to blame for ROTJ's problems.
I'll hunt down the book (it's somewhere around, I swear) and post a more in-depth answer.
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Post by thomasallencummins on Dec 5, 2007 9:08:59 GMT -5
As usual I agree with your comments, ram.
I suppose if Lucas had done something different with Vader, managed to maintain his inherent coolness and still manage to explain his background in a compelling way, the prequels would have been far more entertaining to me.
Except of course that the prequels themselves have far more flaws than the unfortunate portrayal of Anakin Skywalker. :-)
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prorider514
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Post by prorider514 on Apr 20, 2008 12:09:53 GMT -5
no but they seriously cant cast younger Anakins. jake lloyd is stupid and his haircut is too round.  and they might as well have had a 2X4 replace hayden christiansen. cuz hes so wooden hahahahaha  look at that blank stare...its chilling |
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Post by thomasallencummins on May 16, 2008 5:49:40 GMT -5
I have to agree with you, PR. There was something wrong with the casting from the beginning and it just didn't make much sense. I have to admit that Hayden seemed to perform fairly well just so long as he wasn't within 20 AUs of Portman. Jake Lloyd was a total failure in my opinion.
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ram
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Post by ram on May 16, 2008 8:41:57 GMT -5
I have to admit that Hayden seemed to perform fairly well just so long as he wasn't within 20 AUs of Portman. Heh. It's saying something that I bought ROTS as soon as it came out on DVD, yet to this day I still haven't bought Phantom or Clones. Maybe if I saw a copy in the bargain bin, but noooo... |
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