|
Post by thomasallencummins on Dec 9, 2009 12:35:58 GMT -5
Good grief. Okay back to the topic. Moving on to Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home... Honestly it's very hard to nitpick this film. I don't for a second beliieve it's flawless it's just the concept and execution is such that nitpicking doesn't seem to stick. In any case I've thought of a few minor issues. It is mentioned early in the film that Starfleet command is allowing Kirk and company the freedom to arrange their own travel to Earth to face charges for their actions in the previous film. Starfleet is fine with an arrangement that includes the operation of a stolen Klingon Bird of Prey. Not very likely. This story line seems to continue the perception that the Federation and the head of it's primary defense forces are bumbling incompetents prone to making myopic and misguided decisions. I guess it's fun to poke a stick at the establishment. ALSO repair of said stolen Klingon vessel is taking more time than expected because it's hard to read Klingon. Scotty has trouble reading and understanding Klingon. Riiiiiight...... Then there is THE PROBE. Who knows where it came from? No one seems interested in it's origin and there is little speculation. I realize that the probe represents a major and immediate threat but this is Star Trek. These guys live for explaining/determining the source/origin of everything. Okay it's a minor gripe to be sure. This massive, advanced and powerful alien probe has no concept of the effect it has on neighboring power systems. It has no ability to interact with other species other than Humpback whales and when confronted with the absence of said whales it begins to vaporize the Earth's oceans, presumably in an effort to determine the whereabouts of the missing aquatic mammals. What was it's plan? After removing all the water pick through the tons of dying marine life piled high on the dry ocean floor in an attempt to locate the objects of its desire? Talk about overkill. :-) Then there is the issue of the pizza box. I noticed it the first time I saw the film and have wondered about it to this day. Kirk has dinner with Gillian. They order pizza and beer. They have to leave in a rush due to a quickly developing plot point about the release of the whales. Next scene Gillian drops Kirk off at the park that the cloaked and invisible Bird of Prey is parked. He stands next to the truck speaking to Gillian through the open window. Gillian has apparently given the seemingly hapless, down on his luck Kirk the leftovers from their dinner which are in an ordinary looking pizza box. As Kirk speaks he is holding the box vertically. Anyone that has been foolish enough to try this has found that pizza sauce dripping down out of the box all over your pants is the inevitable result. Clearly the pizza box is simply an empty movie prop but..... Lastly (look I know it couldn't be helped but it bothers me) any fool can tell the difference between most any other U.S. aircraft Carrier and the Enterprise. She has a very distinctive command tower. RANGERENTERPRISENuff said.... Thats all I got for now. :-)
|
|
|
Post by dANdeLION on Dec 9, 2009 12:59:45 GMT -5
Kirk, being from the 24th century, probably doesn't have much experience carrying 20th century pizza boxes.
|
|
ram
Magpie
randomly avoiding mainframes
Posts: 571
|
Post by ram on Dec 10, 2009 3:19:20 GMT -5
atomic, your pizza box nitpick is one for the ages! Wow. How many sleepless nights did this give you? ;D It's a good observation, though. Wonder how stain-resistant 23rd century fabrics are. Yes, it's funny. We have online translator programs today (although I recognize that the internet didn't exist in 1986 when the movie was made). How hard would it have been for 23rd century technology to create a computerized version of a Klingon-English dictionary? It's not as if Klingon is like, say, the language of humpback whales. I remember film critics Siskel & Ebert expressing the same sort of disappointment regarding Independence Day: in all the fighting, we never really got to know more about the alien invaders. But it didn't bother me. I accepted that it was a sci fi war movie - no more and no less, so I went along for the ride. With ST IV, I accepted that the Probe was really just the catalyst for a "save-the-whales" story. But I wanted to know more about the Probe, too, which is why I finally read the, er, imaginatively titled Probe novel that dealt with the entity's origins. Good point! The novel Probe did delve into some of this, but to be honest, I've forgotten already. Some nitpicks of mine: I have no idea how popular a gathering spot Golden Gate Park (?) is for locals, but do they seriously expect me to believe that a large object like a Klingon ship could sit there all that time, even cloaked, without detection? I could easily picture random people walking smack into it and calling the cops. Is that park big enough that a space ship could hide in one unobtrusive corner of it? Nuclear reactor: I'm going to assume that San Francisco did not (does not) have any nuclear power plants, which would explain why they had to get their precious "high energy photons" (btw, aren't photons high energy by definition?) by infiltrating a heavily guarded military vessel instead. It's like, "we need to find the most dangerous way to do our mission!" And why didn't that sniffer dog bark like crazy and lead the guard down the stairs? Seriously, it was only a few steps - Uhura and Chekov were RIGHT THERE! If you're trying to impress to the audience how serious the security is on a US naval vessel, you don't do it by having an ace sniffer dog totally miss two intruders who are hiding right under its nose! Remember when Sulu is piloting the Klingon ship down to the whales and the whaling ship? We see from his perspective the Klingon ship flying right over the whaling ship. Considering how massive the Klingon ship is and how much momentum it's carrying, it should have crashed into the ocean. Either that or it should have overshot its "prey" - the whales - by a fair distance by the time it stopped. And yet when it de-cloaks, the Klingon cruiser is miraculously positioned right over the whaling ship. Which means Sulu must have stopped an instant after he had flown full throttle over the whaling ship. Can you picture the G forces involved? After they've gotten their whales, Kirk orders the ship to go to warp speed, and they zoom away from Earth. Uh, remember in ST:TMP when Kirk said in his captain's log that the Enterprise had to risk engaging warp drive while still within the solar system? But apparently, going to warp while still in the atmosphere of a planet is no big deal! With that out of the way, I just want to say it was a joy to watch ST: TMP through ST IV for this thread. I'm fond of these first four Trek movies, in almost the same way that I'm fond of the original Star Wars trilogy.
|
|
|
Post by thomasallencummins on Dec 10, 2009 12:26:05 GMT -5
I have no idea how popular a gathering spot Golden Gate Park (?) is for locals, but do they seriously expect me to believe that a large object like a Klingon ship could sit there all that time, even cloaked, without detection? I could easily picture random people walking smack into it and calling the cops. Is that park big enough that a space ship could hide in one unobtrusive corner of it? I couldn't agree more. I suppose it has to do with the notion that a 20th century person has no concept of an "invisible object". I'm guessing Kirk and company simply dodged a bullet on that one. Sure a few people cracked their skulls on the ship's landing struts but since they saw nothing they said nothing. However sooner or later it wouldn't have escaped closer scrutiny. The thing that occurs to me is the idea that the ship is "Completely invisible" I'm not sure a cloaking device is designed to make an object utterly unobservable. I would expect that the best that could be accomplished would be very very very hard to detect but if you were standing right next to it you would likely see a distortion of some kind. The ship is cloaked to prevent detection from other space faring ships not people peering closely at it from a foot away. IMHO of course. And why didn't that sniffer dog bark like crazy and lead the guard down the stairs? Seriously, it was only a few steps - Uhura and Chekov were RIGHT THERE! If you're trying to impress to the audience how serious the security is on a US naval vessel, you don't do it by having an ace sniffer dog totally miss two intruders who are hiding right under its nose! It's possible that humans of the 23rd Century don't "smell" or give off the same scent as humans of the 20th. Perhaps due to genetics or maybe due to something as simple as improved hygiene techniques. ;DRemember when Sulu is piloting the Klingon ship down to the whales and the whaling ship? We see from his perspective the Klingon ship flying right over the whaling ship. Considering how massive the Klingon ship is and how much momentum it's carrying, it should have crashed into the ocean. Either that or it should have overshot its "prey" - the whales - by a fair distance by the time it stopped. And yet when it de-cloaks, the Klingon cruiser is miraculously positioned right over the whaling ship. Which means Sulu must have stopped an instant after he had flown full throttle over the whaling ship. Can you picture the G forces involved? I felt the same way. I'm guessing it's all a matter of creative editing. The swoop/pass and subsequent 180 degree turn is simply not show but does happen. After they've gotten their whales, Kirk orders the ship to go to warp speed, and they zoom away from Earth. Uh, remember in ST:TMP when Kirk said in his captain's log that the Enterprise had to risk engaging warp drive while still within the solar system? But apparently, going to warp while still in the atmosphere of a planet is no big deal! Again I'm right there with you. You gotta love creative continuity.
|
|
ram
Magpie
randomly avoiding mainframes
Posts: 571
|
Post by ram on Dec 11, 2009 1:48:02 GMT -5
Good point. There was that scene in ST III where Kirk and Sulu, aboard the Enterprise, were able to make out the distortion of Kruge's cloaked Bird of Prey against the stars. So if they could see the distortion from that far away, then yeah, there's no way the ship could be completely invisible sitting in a park in broad daylight. Maybe Uhura wore Romulan perfume or something... Looking forward to your ST V nitpicks. I'm gonna need willpower to sit through that movie again.
|
|
|
Post by thomasallencummins on Dec 14, 2009 8:46:34 GMT -5
Okay. Star Trek V: The Final Frontier. WOW! What a terrible movie. Not just a terrible Star Trek Movie but a terrible movie. I'm going to try to not jump right to the rocket boots but it's very very very very very difficult. :-)
First of all, I understand what the impact an unknown, never talked about, never seen, never conceived of, long lost brother to Spock is intended to have. It's supposed to be shocking and fill you with questions. Well bravo on all counts. Add to this amazing revelation that Sybok is also a Vulcan who has eschewed logic for passion as his great ancestors did. Wow, a laughing Vulcan. We're really intrigued now. But it doesn't end there (now how much will you pay?) Sybok is also quite insane or, as we discover later, hopelessly misguided. Dude is hearing voices from beyond the moon, telling him to hijack a Starship and bring it to the center of the galaxy so he can free God from his prison within "the barrier". Bloody hell! Wait there's more! Sybok uses his Vulcan mental telepathy to brainwash his followers by "taking away their most private pain" by showing it to them up close and personal so they can deal with it. (I think that was a technique first used on the old Bob Newhart show back in the 70s.) Within the context of this laughable film Sybok's power works pretty well, eventually winning over Dr. McCoy (it was utterly ineffective on Spock and Kirk dismissed it saying "I need my pain, it's what makes us who we are." Well duh!) My nitpick in all of this is that I didn't buy it for a second. Not one second. Okay. I think I've made myself pretty clear about how I feel about the Sybok character (frankly I found Lawrence Luckinbill's portrayal of Sybok fairly competent.) Let's move on to some other issues shall we?
The first appearance of the rocketboots. Ugh....... Spock saves Kirk from nearly killing himself during a rock climbing stunt in the early moments of the picture. He performs the rescue with the use of.....ROCKET BOOTS.....ugh......I kid you not. Genuine, ACME, Wyle E. Coyote, ROCKET BOOTS. They also somehow perform quite well when the user is upside down trying to keep his friend from becoming a bloody smear on a boulder. Not sure how that works. In the 23rd century, with the wide use of anti gravity units and the like....WHY THE FLIP DOES SPOCK USE ROOOOOOOOOCCCCKKKKKKKEEEEEETTTTTT BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTSSSSSSSS?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!??!?! CAN YOU SAY ILLOGICAL? IDIOTIC? REDICULOUS? Give me a second to compose myself......okay....I think I can continue. :-)
Chekov and Sulu get lost hiking...while possessing a communicator. Being part of a landing party hundreds of times, on alien worlds and never getting lost once, but a casual hike in Yosemite National forest on Earth they get lost and try to cover it up like a gag from Abott and Costello.....riiiiiiiight..... (What are Chekov and Sulu doing together like that anyway. They aren't joined at the hip. It's Earth for crying out loud. Go home and visit the wife and kids. We know Sulu has 'em. Chekov likes the ladies even if he isn't married. I find this scene insulting.)
I got more, lots more but I have to pace myself.
|
|
|
Post by dANdeLION on Dec 14, 2009 22:23:23 GMT -5
I just want to know how long those Klingons were stationed at their outpost. It must have been one hell of a long time; otherwise, Uhura's old woman lust dance would never have worked.
|
|
ram
Magpie
randomly avoiding mainframes
Posts: 571
|
Post by ram on Dec 15, 2009 2:11:40 GMT -5
dAN, that "dance" of Uhura's is just one of many things that fell completely flat in ST V. I just finished watching the movie. (The only reason I have a copy is because it's part of the "original motion picture collection I-VI" I bought earlier in the year. No way I would've bought it on its own.) So I watched it...and I swear, I was shaking my head every five minutes at how bad this movie was. Honestly, I tried to give it another chance to win me over, but the lame "prologue" scene ruined things again. The bald dude with his vacuous expression who looks like an idiot twin brother to the singer from Midnight Oil. Sybok's oh-so-dramatic "reveal" of his Vulcan ears to the camera - ooh, look, I'm a Vulcan! See? And the idiot dude's oh-so-happy reaction: oh, you're a Vulcan! Everything will be okay now! I love you, you love me... You sense my pain, Sybok? You want to know what it is? It's the pain of having to sit through this movie and your moronic speech all over again. ARRRRGH. Okay. I think I've made myself pretty clear about how I feel about the Sybok character (frankly I found Lawrence Luckinbill's portrayal of Sybok fairly competent.) I didn't buy into the character at all either. IMO, Robyn Curtis's Saavik was more convincing. What about the opening credits? Alarm bells had gone off in my mind as soon as I saw the star field from ST II being re-used for the title sequence, accompanied by a re-hash of the main theme from ST:TMP. You know you're in for a bargain basement show when a movie can't even afford to have someone design a new title sequence or write new music. Did you also notice how short the credits were? In previous Trek films, they were proud to list a good number of the individuals involved, as the theme music ran its course. Nope, not in ST V. (True, ST:TMP's title sequence was very curt, too, but it had the excuse that it WAS the original Jerry Goldsmith score, conducted by Mr. Goldsmith. And the graphic design was all-original.) So, we're at Yosemite. There are definitely asinine things about this "shore leave" scene. The rocket boots (ACME! Perfect!) deserve to be mocked for sure. Your point about Sulu and Chekov getting lost is another good one. To me, the problem is that all the "comedy" is so forced, whether it's between Chekov and Sulu or Kirk, Spock and McCoy. Compare this to the easy-going humor in ST IV. The contrast is startling. The way the cast members react to each other in ST V is so phony that you have to ask, what caused this change? All right, back on the Enterprise - the new one we last saw at the very end of ST IV - we see Scotty already complaining about it because the ship hasn't lived up to expectations. "Let's see what she's got, he said...well we found out, didn't we?" There's nothing "wrong" with this scene, but I just feel annoyed - and a little betrayed - that they would crap all over the feel-good resolution of ST IV so soon. I mean, at the end of ST IV, there was the crew aboard the snazzy new bridge of the new Enterprise, implying a new golden age of exploration for the veterans. But right in the next movie, things are falling apart. That's not a clever twist, it's just dumb and depressing, and that's not what I watch Star Trek for.
|
|
|
Post by thomasallencummins on Dec 15, 2009 7:28:23 GMT -5
I just want to know how long those Klingons were stationed at their outpost. It must have been one hell of a long time; otherwise, Uhura's old woman lust dance would never have worked. Okay Dan. I was getting to that but since you brought it up.... The scene / Scenario you reference is so poorly thought out I laugh every single time I watch it. It's like a chimpanzee begins scribbling on a piece of paper and somehow manages to accidentally form a plot of sorts. Am I remembering correctly...Spock nerve pinches a horse? A horse?!? Look first of all we've seen the Enterprise blanket an entire block with phasers on stun force, rendering everyone unconscious. We've also seen portable phaser cannons, if there was some kind of shield over the planet preventing such a barrage, that could do pretty much the same job from a hilltop. Or a simple hand phaser set on heavy stun in a wide beam would be pretty effective in eliminating the threat from those crude spud guns. Multiply that by 8 or so for the entire landing party and there's just no contest. This rescue just shouldn't be necessary in the first place. At least not in the way they are going about it. Naturally the screenwriter is looking for a way to get Kirk and company into a gritty hand to hand battle that they ultimately can't win. The trouble is there's no logic to it. So to set all this stupidity up, Uhura does a nude fan dance to lure the guards away from their posts. The whole thing is stupid and insulting. Why on earth would Nichele Nicols ever agree to do such a thing in the first place? I remember groaning at the theater when I saw this scene the first time. What about the cat woman? It's bad enough that there is even a cat woman in the film in the first place but when the mighty Captain Kirk lifts her struggling form off his shoulders, military presses her into the air above his head and then effortlessly throws her across the room....well it makes me sick to my stomach at how idiotic this is. I got lots more but I have to take a break. It's just SOOOO stupid....... ;D
|
|
ram
Magpie
randomly avoiding mainframes
Posts: 571
|
Post by ram on Dec 15, 2009 10:04:55 GMT -5
Am I remembering correctly...Spock nerve pinches a horse? A horse?!? You know, I had totally forgotten that part until my viewing last night. Oh man. Again, the writers thought they were being funny, but it was just stupid. In the time that Spock needed to do the pinch, the horserider had any number of chances to punch/jump on/shoot him. Not that I'm suggesting the guy could have beaten Spock in hand-to-hand combat, but really, the dude just sits on his horse like a moron the whole time. And yeah...just when did the Vulcan nerve pinch apply to horses??? It's almost like a superpower he's got now. Just put a cape on Spock and call him the Nerve Pincher. I hadn't thought about all the phaser options, but yeah, I was annoyed that a well-trained (you would think!) Starfleet reconnaissance team could be rendered helpless by a rag tag band of outlaws. I call it the "Ewok" syndrome.
|
|
|
Post by thomasallencummins on Dec 15, 2009 10:11:51 GMT -5
dAN, that "dance" of Uhura's is just one of many things that fell completely flat in ST V. I just finished watching the movie. (The only reason I have a copy is because it's part of the "original motion picture collection I-VI" I bought earlier in the year. No way I would've bought it on its own.) You are braver than I, ram. I will have to try to rely on my fading memory of the film. ;D Okay. I think I've made myself pretty clear about how I feel about the Sybok character (frankly I found Lawrence Luckinbill's portrayal of Sybok fairly competent.) I didn't buy into the character at all either. IMO, Robyn Curtis's Saavik was more convincing. Oh I agree. To say LL did a competent job is the very best thing I could think of about the movie in general. What about the opening credits? Alarm bells had gone off in my mind as soon as I saw the star field from ST II being re-used for the title sequence, accompanied by a re-hash of the main theme from ST:TMP. You know you're in for a bargain basement show when a movie can't even afford to have someone design a new title sequence or write new music. Did you also notice how short the credits were? In previous Trek films, they were proud to list a good number of the individuals involved, as the theme music ran its course. Nope, not in ST V. (True, ST:TMP's title sequence was very curt, too, but it had the excuse that it WAS the original Jerry Goldsmith score, conducted by Mr. Goldsmith. And the graphic design was all-original.) I agree and had the same reaction. There's one word that describes my general impression of the opening credits and the special effects throughout. CHEAP! So, we're at Yosemite. There are definitely asinine things about this "shore leave" scene. The rocket boots (ACME! Perfect!) deserve to be mocked for sure. Your point about Sulu and Chekov getting lost is another good one. To me, the problem is that all the "comedy" is so forced, whether it's between Chekov and Sulu or Kirk, Spock and McCoy. Compare this to the easy-going humor in ST IV. The contrast is startling. The way the cast members react to each other in ST V is so phony that you have to ask, what caused this change? After reading the Wiki article on the film I have some sympathy for the production and those involved. The change in approach can be traced to a wide range of miscues, mishaps, poor judgment and inexperience. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_V:_The_Final_FrontierAll right, back on the Enterprise - the new one we last saw at the very end of ST IV - we see Scotty already complaining about it because the ship hasn't lived up to expectations. "Let's see what she's got, he said...well we found out, didn't we?" There's nothing "wrong" with this scene, but I just feel annoyed - and a little betrayed - that they would crap all over the feel-good resolution of ST IV so soon. I mean, at the end of ST IV, there was the crew aboard the snazzy new bridge of the new Enterprise, implying a new golden age of exploration for the veterans. But right in the next movie, things are falling apart. That's not a clever twist, it's just dumb and depressing, and that's not what I watch Star Trek for. Again agreed. I found it especially annoying that the book shaped, hand held log recorder not only mal functioned but seemed to physically break when used.
|
|
|
Post by thomasallencummins on Dec 15, 2009 21:52:09 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by dANdeLION on Dec 15, 2009 22:19:23 GMT -5
dAN, that "dance" of Uhura's is just one of many things that fell completely flat in ST V. No doubt. But if you think I've watched any of it after seeing it in the theater, you're sadly mistaken. No, that scene is enough to keep me from ever watching that POS again. All the other crap from that film has slowly left my memory, and I have no intentions of changing that. Let's face it, any movie that can make me think that ST III wasn't all that bad must really, really suck, because I hated ST III.
|
|
ram
Magpie
randomly avoiding mainframes
Posts: 571
|
Post by ram on Dec 16, 2009 4:16:36 GMT -5
Well, then, you and atomic were smarter than me! Looks like I'm the only one here to have a copy of ST V - and the only one fool enough to have endured watching it again. Best. Review. Ever. It's far more entertaining and funnier than the movie. (As is this thread.) I shouldn't have read it this late at night, because now I can't sleep. I feel an intense need to torture a Shatner action figure...if I only had one. Also thanks for the Wiki link. I should have said it sooner, but I do have sympathy for the cast - at least anyone not named Bill Shatner. All right, maybe I can spare a smidgen for him, too, but ultimately, he's responsible for this wreck of a movie. He may have been betrayed by Paramount in being given a meager budget to work with, but that's still no excuse for the rampant idiocy in the final product. Yes, the writers came up with awful stuff, but Shatner could have said no at any time. Yet he approved it all. His eagerness to helm his very own Trek movie (plus his ego) seemed to have blinded him to the project's severe flaws. A bad director is not automatically cured by a large budget (though it could disguise his/her ineptitude to some degree). Not that I'm letting Paramount off the hook: I still wonder what those studio clown heads were thinking when they decided to give very little money for ST V. They should have had more respect for a franchise that had made them so much money, especially after ST IV.
|
|
|
Post by thomasallencummins on Dec 17, 2009 6:39:39 GMT -5
I've found other reviews on the author's web site. I loved the one for Highlander II. I'm reading his take on Superman IV (it's kind of lengthy with a very nice history of superheroes in movies and television etc before launching into SMIV). A glutton for punishment I've also begun reading the review of...Battlefield Earth! ;D
Next stop....STAR TREK VI :-)
|
|